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speed

October 1, 2008 - 01:48 — muleflat

You probably all know that Bob Dill, in a article published in Seahorse magazine this year has de-bunked the myth that an ice boat with wooden spars and cotton sails could possibly be faster than a modern Ice boat. No one to my knowlege has ever published a gps recorded top ice boat speed, we hear a good skeeter tops out at around 72mph is this true. If not, what is the higest recorded speed attained by an ice boat using modern methods. Richard Jenkins of Wind Jet has a new boat ready for the ice and would like to have an honest top speed to attempt to better.I know you all have stories and i do as well, but an honest apprasial would be appreciated.
Three cheers to Good Ice and a new president.
Muleflat

Comments

December 28, 2008 - 21:26 — Adam-US5366

Debunking myths?

I encourage the British team to aim higher. Top 143 mph and they will get everyone's attention as well as their respect.

/Adam

December 26, 2008 - 04:20 — Bob Dill

Speeds on ice

The fastest speed I have personaly measured on ice is 80 mph (Tom Nichols in wind in the low 20's). One of the Jersey sailors got to 84 on radar on Lake Wallenpaulpack (sp?)in an effort at MAX speed in wind in the 20's. Initially I had expected higher speeds than this from Skeeters. With logged GPS data you can combine the sailing angles, boat speed and true wind speed to get a pretty definitive picture. That picture supports the notion that top speeds should be in the high 80's (at least near sea level). There was a little discussion on this subject on Scuttlebutt earlier this week.
I expect others have gone faster than 84, I just have not seen the data. Dave Gleuk and John Cassity on Canyon Ferry report speeds near or just over 100 mph based on GPS measurements but the measurement process was a little more shakey than I am comfortable with for what, from my perspective, seems like a pretty substantial claim. I am sending them some logging GPSs to get some better data. I expect they will have some soon. With its big ice and high altitude this is an excellent venue for going fast. At the end of the day, the truth is out there, all we need to do is measure it properly. If anyone wants suggestions for what GPSs are best for speed measurement, please contact me.
Jack: It sounds like you must have a bunch of radar measurements, what are you seeing with different boats types in different winds?

Thanks,

Bob

December 27, 2008 - 07:00 — Adam-US5366

Peter Harken E-skeeter... 120 mph

http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/08/tt/#peter

I have heard from more than one reputable source that a certain xl sized German has done 84 mph in a DN, on GPS of course.

Two weeks ago we were topping 65 mph on gps in DNs and not really trying that hard on the shaky Osakis ice. So I believe 84 mph is plausible in a DN.

/Adam

October 8, 2008 - 15:58 — pgoodwin_US46

Bob Dill reported on Skeeter

Bob Dill reported on Skeeter speeds taken while racing. This requires understanding the notion of "fastest course" upwind and downwind. When racing, the fastest course is not the direction of highest speed. Trust me, any skeeter is capable of speeds MUCH higher than 72mph. Unfortunately for the thrill seekers, Skeeter owners haven't been willing to put there $50,000+ boats on a reach and let 'em rip just to see how fast they can go, but I would bet 100 mph would be within easy reach.

Many iceboaters like to go out with a hand-held GPS to see how fast they can go. While Bob Dill's article points out the folly of thinking that a hand-held unit will give true speeds, they do provide a pretty good idea of top speeds. Many DN sailors will boast of entering the "60 MPH Club". A DN at 60 mph is quite a thrill, and this speed can be reached with a well tuned boat on good ice while reaching. A really well set up DN with a skilled pilot will hit speeds over 60 mph while racing.

If we can get Jack Jacobs to chime in, he has a radar setup at his place on the lake, and there have been lots of speed runs past the radar - including runs in several of his skeeters.

Paul - US46

November 3, 2008 - 05:18 — jackjacobs

Paul,

Paul,

I agree totally. From actual runs using radar set up on the lake. Skeeters can easily reach over 100 mph.

I try to stay out of the Bob Dill discussions. You know how they say "If you can't say anything nice..." you know the rest.

The week after the ISA was here on Elk Lake in 1995 we had the radar set up. There were A-skeeters, both rear cockpit and bubble boats running past the radar. 72mph as a top speed is a bunch of B.S.

We have had the radar set up many times since then, but that weekend was a weekend with a large variety of skeeters and many witnesses.

Jack Jacobs

—

Jack

December 28, 2008 - 23:04 — jackjacobs

I am staying out of quoting top speeds for A-skeeters

I have to add, we have not only used radar, but GPS. We have even used 3 different GPS's while going through the radar. All readings were within 1.5 mph of each other.
I have had my C-skeeter (with an A-skeeter rig on it)on bad ice with winds gusting to 30mph and have gps readings of 87, 89 and 92 mph. All 3 readings were on 2 different types of GPS that day with a minimum of 4 witnesses. The boat was not even sheeted all the way down because of the poor, but wild conditions. That was a little C-skeeter..not even an A-boat.
I use the best money can buy when it comes to iceboating (or anything) including GPS and radar's. We do it for fun so I really don't care much about any opinion about top speeds. I have over 60 years and thousands of readings for FUN that prove that skeeters easily go over 100mph and no one was attempting top speed. Most good skeeters don't do that. We use the info to improve and tune our boats for optimum efficiency. I have no interest in getting into discussions about what is top speed in each kind of wind with whatever kinds of ice. It's different by skipper and BS gets published and arguments start. We quit using logging software 3 years ago because it just didn't matter to us.
I will go out this winter, have fun and cruise around and enjoy myself, never once wondering if I am breaking some record.
Sorry, the iceboaters on Elk Lake won't be much help to anyone considering speed. We measure it, share it with close friends, but won't publish it or discuss anything over 100mph online because it can turn into arguments. Besides the fact that...why in the world would we want any info like that to get out. I don't want the sport regulated. Michigan has a 55mph speed limit on all inland lakes. Do we really want to start having people notice us?
If asked, I will always tell locals here, we cruise at 50mph..good enough.
Sorry, I'm done with the top speed discussions, I'm going sailing.
Jack

Great article
http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/08/tt/#peter

—

Jack

January 12, 2009 - 18:03 — Bob Dill

Understood

Jack,
I can appreciate your feelings about the Skeeter speed number debate. This has been a contentious issue for a long time and, as you point out, discord is not why we love to sail. I expect there will continue to be disagreement until we get a substantial amount of data from high wind sailing.
The 80 to 84 mph numbers I have given in this and other discussions were only intended to provide a baseline. These numbers do not represent the maximum Skeeter speeds achieved, just the fastest I have had good data for. I think your GPS numbers and the ones from Canyon Ferry I mentioned in my 12/25 comment may be a more realistic picture of the upper end of the speed range. Thank you for sharing this data.
Happy sailing!
Bob

November 4, 2008 - 16:19 — Bob Gray

GPS Speed

At the Worlds on Green Bay in 2007 we had almost perfect ice and almost too much wind. Both myself and a friend in a couple of races showed a top speed of 65 MPH on a GPS. I know skeeters are a bunch faster then a DN.
BOB